Can solid acids and bases have pH values? If not, how are they classified as acids or bases?What is the pH of ice?How can aluminium oxide be called an acid?acids, bases, salts, etcUnderstanding of acids and basesConcentration of a species outside buffer region (polyprotic acid titration)Zwitterions/IEP of glycine at pH 6? (Paradox?)Obtaining activity coefficients of conjugate acids of some common carboxylic acid moleculesCalculating the pH of a ammonium hydrogen sulfate solutionCalculating PH of solution after adding strong acid (equilibrium)Effects of Ka on the Half-Equivalence PointHow do I calculate the hydronium ion concentration if I know the strontium hydroxide concentration?

Examples of subgroups where it's nontrivial to show closure under multiplication?

Is there really no use for MD5 anymore?

Does Gita support doctrine of eternal samsara?

Stop and Take a Breath!

Was there a shared-world project before "Thieves World"?

How can the Zone of Truth spell be defeated without the caster knowing?

What is the strongest case that can be made in favour of the UK regaining some control over fishing policy after Brexit?

Is DC-DC (24v to 12v) Buck Conversion typically more efficient than AC-DC (110v to 12v) conversion?

How much cash can I safely carry into the USA and avoid civil forfeiture?

Why do Computer Science majors learn Calculus?

The Defining Moment

Fizzy, soft, pop and still drinks

How did Captain America manage to do this?

Why don't other Westeros houses use wildfire?

Is there any limitation with Arduino Nano serial communication distance?

Uniformly continuous derivative implies existence of limit

Does the sign matter for proportionality?

Rivers without rain

Sci-fi novel series with instant travel between planets through gates. A river runs through the gates

How do I use proper grammar in the negation of "have not" for the following sentence translation?

Packing rectangles: Does rotation ever help?

How can Republicans who favour free markets, consistently express anger when they don't like the outcome of that choice?

What happened to Captain America in Endgame?

Does this extra sentence in the description of the warlock's Eyes of the Rune Keeper eldritch invocation appear in any official reference?



Can solid acids and bases have pH values? If not, how are they classified as acids or bases?


What is the pH of ice?How can aluminium oxide be called an acid?acids, bases, salts, etcUnderstanding of acids and basesConcentration of a species outside buffer region (polyprotic acid titration)Zwitterions/IEP of glycine at pH 6? (Paradox?)Obtaining activity coefficients of conjugate acids of some common carboxylic acid moleculesCalculating the pH of a ammonium hydrogen sulfate solutionCalculating PH of solution after adding strong acid (equilibrium)Effects of Ka on the Half-Equivalence PointHow do I calculate the hydronium ion concentration if I know the strontium hydroxide concentration?













2












$begingroup$


This answer states




$mathrmpH$ is the aqueous concentration of $ceH3O+$ or $ceH+$ ions in soution. I would not say that ice lacks $ceH3O+$ and $ceOH-$ ions as ice's structure would allow for such, however, since the ions are not in aqueous solution, the material cannot rightfully have a "$mathrmpH$" as we know it.




How does that generalize to solid acids and solid bases? Can solid acids and bases have pH values? If they don't have a pH, how would the solid form of a new compound then be classified as an acid or a base?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$
















    2












    $begingroup$


    This answer states




    $mathrmpH$ is the aqueous concentration of $ceH3O+$ or $ceH+$ ions in soution. I would not say that ice lacks $ceH3O+$ and $ceOH-$ ions as ice's structure would allow for such, however, since the ions are not in aqueous solution, the material cannot rightfully have a "$mathrmpH$" as we know it.




    How does that generalize to solid acids and solid bases? Can solid acids and bases have pH values? If they don't have a pH, how would the solid form of a new compound then be classified as an acid or a base?










    share|improve this question











    $endgroup$














      2












      2








      2





      $begingroup$


      This answer states




      $mathrmpH$ is the aqueous concentration of $ceH3O+$ or $ceH+$ ions in soution. I would not say that ice lacks $ceH3O+$ and $ceOH-$ ions as ice's structure would allow for such, however, since the ions are not in aqueous solution, the material cannot rightfully have a "$mathrmpH$" as we know it.




      How does that generalize to solid acids and solid bases? Can solid acids and bases have pH values? If they don't have a pH, how would the solid form of a new compound then be classified as an acid or a base?










      share|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      This answer states




      $mathrmpH$ is the aqueous concentration of $ceH3O+$ or $ceH+$ ions in soution. I would not say that ice lacks $ceH3O+$ and $ceOH-$ ions as ice's structure would allow for such, however, since the ions are not in aqueous solution, the material cannot rightfully have a "$mathrmpH$" as we know it.




      How does that generalize to solid acids and solid bases? Can solid acids and bases have pH values? If they don't have a pH, how would the solid form of a new compound then be classified as an acid or a base?







      organic-chemistry acid-base ph






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 1 hour ago







      uhoh

















      asked 2 hours ago









      uhohuhoh

      2,0771244




      2,0771244




















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          2












          $begingroup$

          I think we should not mix the concept of pH, which is purely an analytical measurement, with the concept of acid and bases. It is a common misconception that pH does not exist in organic solvents. As you already know, there are several views of an acid or bases. The current IUPAC version is "A molecular entity or chemical species capable of donating a hydron (proton) (see Brønsted acid) or capable of forming a covalent bond with an electron pair (see Lewis acid)." This definition does not require the presence of water or any pH value.



          If we take pure dry HCl gas and ammonia gas and mix them. The reaction is a classic acid base reaction. Solid fumes of ammonium chloride are formed instantly. One may then ask a question of what is the pH of a gas? However gas phase acid base chemistry does exist and it can be studied by mass spectrometry but pH does not need to be invoked.



          Now instead of asking the pH of solid acids/bases, a more realistic question is what is the surface pH of a given solid? I was interested in this type of problems sometime ago but didn't find much literature. Assume an ion-exchanger which consists of $ceSO3-H+$ groups on a solid polymeric matrix, basically sulfonate styrene divinylbenzene. Assume that it is in equilibrium with 1 mM HCl solution. The solution pH is 3, but what is the surface pH? It is certainly way below zero, because sulfonic acid is a very strong acid and the surface concentration of sulfonic acid groups is pretty high yet the groups are not mobile in the solution!



          Similarly, solid acid catalysts exist. Also see how solid acids are titrated [1].



          References



          1. Chai, S.-H.; Wang, H.-P.; Liang, Y.; Xu, B.-Q. Sustainable Production of Acrolein: Investigation of Solid Acid–Base Catalysts for Gas-Phase Dehydration of Glycerol. Green Chem. 2007, 9 (10), 1130–1136. https://doi.org/10.1039/B702200J.





          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            I love your answers and the way you include helpful insight beyond the minimum answer. Thanks!
            $endgroup$
            – uhoh
            31 mins ago










          • $begingroup$
            Your questions are thought provoking too-Deceptively simple! Just curious are you doing research on water chemistry?
            $endgroup$
            – M. Farooq
            26 mins ago











          Your Answer








          StackExchange.ready(function()
          var channelOptions =
          tags: "".split(" "),
          id: "431"
          ;
          initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

          StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
          // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
          if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
          StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
          createEditor();
          );

          else
          createEditor();

          );

          function createEditor()
          StackExchange.prepareEditor(
          heartbeatType: 'answer',
          autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
          convertImagesToLinks: false,
          noModals: true,
          showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
          reputationToPostImages: null,
          bindNavPrevention: true,
          postfix: "",
          imageUploader:
          brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
          contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
          allowUrls: true
          ,
          onDemand: true,
          discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
          ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
          );



          );













          draft saved

          draft discarded


















          StackExchange.ready(
          function ()
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fchemistry.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f114472%2fcan-solid-acids-and-bases-have-ph-values-if-not-how-are-they-classified-as-aci%23new-answer', 'question_page');

          );

          Post as a guest















          Required, but never shown

























          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes








          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          2












          $begingroup$

          I think we should not mix the concept of pH, which is purely an analytical measurement, with the concept of acid and bases. It is a common misconception that pH does not exist in organic solvents. As you already know, there are several views of an acid or bases. The current IUPAC version is "A molecular entity or chemical species capable of donating a hydron (proton) (see Brønsted acid) or capable of forming a covalent bond with an electron pair (see Lewis acid)." This definition does not require the presence of water or any pH value.



          If we take pure dry HCl gas and ammonia gas and mix them. The reaction is a classic acid base reaction. Solid fumes of ammonium chloride are formed instantly. One may then ask a question of what is the pH of a gas? However gas phase acid base chemistry does exist and it can be studied by mass spectrometry but pH does not need to be invoked.



          Now instead of asking the pH of solid acids/bases, a more realistic question is what is the surface pH of a given solid? I was interested in this type of problems sometime ago but didn't find much literature. Assume an ion-exchanger which consists of $ceSO3-H+$ groups on a solid polymeric matrix, basically sulfonate styrene divinylbenzene. Assume that it is in equilibrium with 1 mM HCl solution. The solution pH is 3, but what is the surface pH? It is certainly way below zero, because sulfonic acid is a very strong acid and the surface concentration of sulfonic acid groups is pretty high yet the groups are not mobile in the solution!



          Similarly, solid acid catalysts exist. Also see how solid acids are titrated [1].



          References



          1. Chai, S.-H.; Wang, H.-P.; Liang, Y.; Xu, B.-Q. Sustainable Production of Acrolein: Investigation of Solid Acid–Base Catalysts for Gas-Phase Dehydration of Glycerol. Green Chem. 2007, 9 (10), 1130–1136. https://doi.org/10.1039/B702200J.





          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            I love your answers and the way you include helpful insight beyond the minimum answer. Thanks!
            $endgroup$
            – uhoh
            31 mins ago










          • $begingroup$
            Your questions are thought provoking too-Deceptively simple! Just curious are you doing research on water chemistry?
            $endgroup$
            – M. Farooq
            26 mins ago















          2












          $begingroup$

          I think we should not mix the concept of pH, which is purely an analytical measurement, with the concept of acid and bases. It is a common misconception that pH does not exist in organic solvents. As you already know, there are several views of an acid or bases. The current IUPAC version is "A molecular entity or chemical species capable of donating a hydron (proton) (see Brønsted acid) or capable of forming a covalent bond with an electron pair (see Lewis acid)." This definition does not require the presence of water or any pH value.



          If we take pure dry HCl gas and ammonia gas and mix them. The reaction is a classic acid base reaction. Solid fumes of ammonium chloride are formed instantly. One may then ask a question of what is the pH of a gas? However gas phase acid base chemistry does exist and it can be studied by mass spectrometry but pH does not need to be invoked.



          Now instead of asking the pH of solid acids/bases, a more realistic question is what is the surface pH of a given solid? I was interested in this type of problems sometime ago but didn't find much literature. Assume an ion-exchanger which consists of $ceSO3-H+$ groups on a solid polymeric matrix, basically sulfonate styrene divinylbenzene. Assume that it is in equilibrium with 1 mM HCl solution. The solution pH is 3, but what is the surface pH? It is certainly way below zero, because sulfonic acid is a very strong acid and the surface concentration of sulfonic acid groups is pretty high yet the groups are not mobile in the solution!



          Similarly, solid acid catalysts exist. Also see how solid acids are titrated [1].



          References



          1. Chai, S.-H.; Wang, H.-P.; Liang, Y.; Xu, B.-Q. Sustainable Production of Acrolein: Investigation of Solid Acid–Base Catalysts for Gas-Phase Dehydration of Glycerol. Green Chem. 2007, 9 (10), 1130–1136. https://doi.org/10.1039/B702200J.





          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            I love your answers and the way you include helpful insight beyond the minimum answer. Thanks!
            $endgroup$
            – uhoh
            31 mins ago










          • $begingroup$
            Your questions are thought provoking too-Deceptively simple! Just curious are you doing research on water chemistry?
            $endgroup$
            – M. Farooq
            26 mins ago













          2












          2








          2





          $begingroup$

          I think we should not mix the concept of pH, which is purely an analytical measurement, with the concept of acid and bases. It is a common misconception that pH does not exist in organic solvents. As you already know, there are several views of an acid or bases. The current IUPAC version is "A molecular entity or chemical species capable of donating a hydron (proton) (see Brønsted acid) or capable of forming a covalent bond with an electron pair (see Lewis acid)." This definition does not require the presence of water or any pH value.



          If we take pure dry HCl gas and ammonia gas and mix them. The reaction is a classic acid base reaction. Solid fumes of ammonium chloride are formed instantly. One may then ask a question of what is the pH of a gas? However gas phase acid base chemistry does exist and it can be studied by mass spectrometry but pH does not need to be invoked.



          Now instead of asking the pH of solid acids/bases, a more realistic question is what is the surface pH of a given solid? I was interested in this type of problems sometime ago but didn't find much literature. Assume an ion-exchanger which consists of $ceSO3-H+$ groups on a solid polymeric matrix, basically sulfonate styrene divinylbenzene. Assume that it is in equilibrium with 1 mM HCl solution. The solution pH is 3, but what is the surface pH? It is certainly way below zero, because sulfonic acid is a very strong acid and the surface concentration of sulfonic acid groups is pretty high yet the groups are not mobile in the solution!



          Similarly, solid acid catalysts exist. Also see how solid acids are titrated [1].



          References



          1. Chai, S.-H.; Wang, H.-P.; Liang, Y.; Xu, B.-Q. Sustainable Production of Acrolein: Investigation of Solid Acid–Base Catalysts for Gas-Phase Dehydration of Glycerol. Green Chem. 2007, 9 (10), 1130–1136. https://doi.org/10.1039/B702200J.





          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          I think we should not mix the concept of pH, which is purely an analytical measurement, with the concept of acid and bases. It is a common misconception that pH does not exist in organic solvents. As you already know, there are several views of an acid or bases. The current IUPAC version is "A molecular entity or chemical species capable of donating a hydron (proton) (see Brønsted acid) or capable of forming a covalent bond with an electron pair (see Lewis acid)." This definition does not require the presence of water or any pH value.



          If we take pure dry HCl gas and ammonia gas and mix them. The reaction is a classic acid base reaction. Solid fumes of ammonium chloride are formed instantly. One may then ask a question of what is the pH of a gas? However gas phase acid base chemistry does exist and it can be studied by mass spectrometry but pH does not need to be invoked.



          Now instead of asking the pH of solid acids/bases, a more realistic question is what is the surface pH of a given solid? I was interested in this type of problems sometime ago but didn't find much literature. Assume an ion-exchanger which consists of $ceSO3-H+$ groups on a solid polymeric matrix, basically sulfonate styrene divinylbenzene. Assume that it is in equilibrium with 1 mM HCl solution. The solution pH is 3, but what is the surface pH? It is certainly way below zero, because sulfonic acid is a very strong acid and the surface concentration of sulfonic acid groups is pretty high yet the groups are not mobile in the solution!



          Similarly, solid acid catalysts exist. Also see how solid acids are titrated [1].



          References



          1. Chai, S.-H.; Wang, H.-P.; Liang, Y.; Xu, B.-Q. Sustainable Production of Acrolein: Investigation of Solid Acid–Base Catalysts for Gas-Phase Dehydration of Glycerol. Green Chem. 2007, 9 (10), 1130–1136. https://doi.org/10.1039/B702200J.






          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 48 mins ago









          andselisk

          20k667129




          20k667129










          answered 54 mins ago









          M. FarooqM. Farooq

          2,018111




          2,018111











          • $begingroup$
            I love your answers and the way you include helpful insight beyond the minimum answer. Thanks!
            $endgroup$
            – uhoh
            31 mins ago










          • $begingroup$
            Your questions are thought provoking too-Deceptively simple! Just curious are you doing research on water chemistry?
            $endgroup$
            – M. Farooq
            26 mins ago
















          • $begingroup$
            I love your answers and the way you include helpful insight beyond the minimum answer. Thanks!
            $endgroup$
            – uhoh
            31 mins ago










          • $begingroup$
            Your questions are thought provoking too-Deceptively simple! Just curious are you doing research on water chemistry?
            $endgroup$
            – M. Farooq
            26 mins ago















          $begingroup$
          I love your answers and the way you include helpful insight beyond the minimum answer. Thanks!
          $endgroup$
          – uhoh
          31 mins ago




          $begingroup$
          I love your answers and the way you include helpful insight beyond the minimum answer. Thanks!
          $endgroup$
          – uhoh
          31 mins ago












          $begingroup$
          Your questions are thought provoking too-Deceptively simple! Just curious are you doing research on water chemistry?
          $endgroup$
          – M. Farooq
          26 mins ago




          $begingroup$
          Your questions are thought provoking too-Deceptively simple! Just curious are you doing research on water chemistry?
          $endgroup$
          – M. Farooq
          26 mins ago

















          draft saved

          draft discarded
















































          Thanks for contributing an answer to Chemistry Stack Exchange!


          • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

          But avoid


          • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

          • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

          Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


          To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




          draft saved


          draft discarded














          StackExchange.ready(
          function ()
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fchemistry.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f114472%2fcan-solid-acids-and-bases-have-ph-values-if-not-how-are-they-classified-as-aci%23new-answer', 'question_page');

          );

          Post as a guest















          Required, but never shown





















































          Required, but never shown














          Required, but never shown












          Required, but never shown







          Required, but never shown

































          Required, but never shown














          Required, but never shown












          Required, but never shown







          Required, but never shown







          Popular posts from this blog

          Disable / Remove link to Product Items in Cart Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern) Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?How can I limit products that can be bought / added to cart?Remove item from cartHide “Add to Cart” button if specific products are already in cart“Prettifying” the custom options in cart pageCreate link in cart sidebar to view all added items After limit reachedLink products together in checkout/cartHow to Get product from cart and add it againHide action-edit on cart page if simple productRemoving Cart items - ObserverRemove wishlist items when added to cart

          Helsingin valtaus Sisällysluettelo Taustaa | Yleistä sotatoimista | Osapuolet | Taistelut Helsingin ympäristössä | Punaisten antautumissuunnitelma | Taistelujen kulku Helsingissä | Valtauksen jälkeen | Tappiot | Muistaminen | Kirjallisuutta | Lähteet | Aiheesta muualla | NavigointivalikkoTeoksen verkkoversioTeoksen verkkoversioGoogle BooksSisällissota Helsingissä päättyi tasan 95 vuotta sittenSaksalaisten ylivoima jyräsi punaisen HelsinginSuomalaiset kuvaavat sotien jälkiä kaupungeissa – katso kuvat ja tarinat tutuilta kulmiltaHelsingin valtaus 90 vuotta sittenSaksalaiset valtasivat HelsinginHyökkäys HelsinkiinHelsingin valtaus 12.–13.4. 1918Saksalaiset käyttivät ihmiskilpiä Helsingin valtauksessa 1918Teoksen verkkoversioTeoksen verkkoversioSaksalaiset hyökkäävät Etelä-SuomeenTaistelut LeppävaarassaSotilaat ja taistelutLeppävaara 1918 huhtikuussa. KapinatarinaHelsingin taistelut 1918Saksalaisten voitonparaati HelsingissäHelsingin valtausta juhlittiinSaksalaisten Helsinki vuonna 1918Helsingin taistelussa kaatuneet valkokaartilaisetHelsinkiin haudatut taisteluissa kaatuneet punaiset12.4.1918 Helsingin valtauksessa saksalaiset apujoukot vapauttavat kaupunginVapaussodan muistomerkkejä Helsingissä ja pääkaupunkiseudullaCrescendo / Vuoden 1918 Kansalaissodan uhrien muistomerkkim

          Adjektiivitarina Tarinan tekeminen | Esimerkki: ennen | Esimerkki: jälkeen | Navigointivalikko