How do I determine if the rules for a long jump or high jump are applicable for Monks? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern) Time to retire the [rules-as-written] tag?What is the longest distance a 13th-level monk can jump while attacking on the same turn?How much movement does a monk need to run up and stand on top of a 50-foot wall?How far can a 9th level monk move along a vertical surfaces and across liquids without falling?Does a monk's Unarmored Movement speed increase apply to the fly speed gained from a Fly spell?Does a Monk's Unarmed Movement Improvement allow vertically running on surfaces?How High is a High Jump?Can a 9th-level multiclassed monk move along vertical surfaces while wearing armor?What counts as “during the move” for the monk's Unarmored Movement?How is movement calculated when running up walls as a monk?Would it be balanced to houserule that 9th-level monks can use Unarmored Movement to stay on vertical surfaces or on liquids without falling?What is the longest distance a 13th-level monk can jump while attacking on the same turn?

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How do I determine if the rules for a long jump or high jump are applicable for Monks?

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What is the longest distance a 13th-level monk can jump while attacking on the same turn?

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How do I determine if the rules for a long jump or high jump are applicable for Monks?



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)
Time to retire the [rules-as-written] tag?What is the longest distance a 13th-level monk can jump while attacking on the same turn?How much movement does a monk need to run up and stand on top of a 50-foot wall?How far can a 9th level monk move along a vertical surfaces and across liquids without falling?Does a monk's Unarmored Movement speed increase apply to the fly speed gained from a Fly spell?Does a Monk's Unarmed Movement Improvement allow vertically running on surfaces?How High is a High Jump?Can a 9th-level multiclassed monk move along vertical surfaces while wearing armor?What counts as “during the move” for the monk's Unarmored Movement?How is movement calculated when running up walls as a monk?Would it be balanced to houserule that 9th-level monks can use Unarmored Movement to stay on vertical surfaces or on liquids without falling?What is the longest distance a 13th-level monk can jump while attacking on the same turn?



.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








8












$begingroup$


Inspired by this question: What is the longest distance a 13th-level monk can jump while attacking on the same turn?




At 9th level, Monks get an improvement to the Unarmored Movement feature:




At 9th level, you gain the ability to move along vertical surfaces and across liquids on your turns without falling during the move.




I interpret this to mean that the Monk can simply treat horizontal and vertical movement as the same for the purposes of determining how far they can move on their turn.



Suppose a 10th-level Monk with 50 feet of movement is in front of a 20-foot-tall building. 10 feet above the building is a flying opponent.



 O
-|- (pitiable fool)
/
10'
------
|
|
20' | O
bldg.| |/ (Mr. T in Monk form)
|____/


Can the monk simply run up the wall and perform a horizontal long jump to reach the flying opponent (assume Monk's strength is at least 10)? This seems appropriate, as from the Monk's point of view, they would be traveling in a horizontal line towards their opponent - and their class feature suggests that for the duration of their turn, gravity seems to be effectively turned off.



Alternately, are the high jump rules applicable? Because from the overall point of view, the Monk's movement is vertical.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$


















    8












    $begingroup$


    Inspired by this question: What is the longest distance a 13th-level monk can jump while attacking on the same turn?




    At 9th level, Monks get an improvement to the Unarmored Movement feature:




    At 9th level, you gain the ability to move along vertical surfaces and across liquids on your turns without falling during the move.




    I interpret this to mean that the Monk can simply treat horizontal and vertical movement as the same for the purposes of determining how far they can move on their turn.



    Suppose a 10th-level Monk with 50 feet of movement is in front of a 20-foot-tall building. 10 feet above the building is a flying opponent.



     O
    -|- (pitiable fool)
    /
    10'
    ------
    |
    |
    20' | O
    bldg.| |/ (Mr. T in Monk form)
    |____/


    Can the monk simply run up the wall and perform a horizontal long jump to reach the flying opponent (assume Monk's strength is at least 10)? This seems appropriate, as from the Monk's point of view, they would be traveling in a horizontal line towards their opponent - and their class feature suggests that for the duration of their turn, gravity seems to be effectively turned off.



    Alternately, are the high jump rules applicable? Because from the overall point of view, the Monk's movement is vertical.










    share|improve this question











    $endgroup$














      8












      8








      8


      1



      $begingroup$


      Inspired by this question: What is the longest distance a 13th-level monk can jump while attacking on the same turn?




      At 9th level, Monks get an improvement to the Unarmored Movement feature:




      At 9th level, you gain the ability to move along vertical surfaces and across liquids on your turns without falling during the move.




      I interpret this to mean that the Monk can simply treat horizontal and vertical movement as the same for the purposes of determining how far they can move on their turn.



      Suppose a 10th-level Monk with 50 feet of movement is in front of a 20-foot-tall building. 10 feet above the building is a flying opponent.



       O
      -|- (pitiable fool)
      /
      10'
      ------
      |
      |
      20' | O
      bldg.| |/ (Mr. T in Monk form)
      |____/


      Can the monk simply run up the wall and perform a horizontal long jump to reach the flying opponent (assume Monk's strength is at least 10)? This seems appropriate, as from the Monk's point of view, they would be traveling in a horizontal line towards their opponent - and their class feature suggests that for the duration of their turn, gravity seems to be effectively turned off.



      Alternately, are the high jump rules applicable? Because from the overall point of view, the Monk's movement is vertical.










      share|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      Inspired by this question: What is the longest distance a 13th-level monk can jump while attacking on the same turn?




      At 9th level, Monks get an improvement to the Unarmored Movement feature:




      At 9th level, you gain the ability to move along vertical surfaces and across liquids on your turns without falling during the move.




      I interpret this to mean that the Monk can simply treat horizontal and vertical movement as the same for the purposes of determining how far they can move on their turn.



      Suppose a 10th-level Monk with 50 feet of movement is in front of a 20-foot-tall building. 10 feet above the building is a flying opponent.



       O
      -|- (pitiable fool)
      /
      10'
      ------
      |
      |
      20' | O
      bldg.| |/ (Mr. T in Monk form)
      |____/


      Can the monk simply run up the wall and perform a horizontal long jump to reach the flying opponent (assume Monk's strength is at least 10)? This seems appropriate, as from the Monk's point of view, they would be traveling in a horizontal line towards their opponent - and their class feature suggests that for the duration of their turn, gravity seems to be effectively turned off.



      Alternately, are the high jump rules applicable? Because from the overall point of view, the Monk's movement is vertical.







      dnd-5e class-feature movement monk






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 3 hours ago









      V2Blast

      27.3k595165




      27.3k595165










      asked 4 hours ago









      PyrotechnicalPyrotechnical

      15.3k562139




      15.3k562139




















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          5












          $begingroup$

          Rules as Written (RAW), Monks ignore gravity only when the rules say they do



          There's no question that a monk's relationship with gravity is peculiar. They have the ability to run on water, up walls, or even to literally "slow fall" (at 9th and 4th level respectively). So it's reasonable to ask to what extent this "fast and loose" relationship with a fundamental force of the universe applies.



          The simple answer is, gravity works differently for monks when the rules say it does. If you wish to make an argument that a vertical jump is considered horizontal for monks when they have just been running up a vertical surface, you need to find a rule that says this is the case. Unfortunately, there isn't one.



          Note that the rules for jumping specify that you need to have "move at least 10 feet on foot" (PHB, p. 182) to jump as high or far as possible: but it doesn't specify that this movement has to be horizontal. So at least a monk could gain this benefit from running up a wall, that other classes might not be able to use (since it's debatable whether or not climbing counts as moving "on foot").



          "Rule of cool", you might be able to talk a DM into it.



          There's no question that the thought of a monk running up a building and then launching themselves "sideways" upward is incredibly cool. Just for the visuals alone, you might be able to talk a DM into it. But since your question was about how to determine if "the rules" apply, the simple answer is that rules apply when the rules say they do.



          ...But either way, the monk could still reach the flying enemy!



          In your hypothetical, the monk will have only used up 20 feet of movement by the time they reach the top of the building (and are presumably standing on it), and have a speed of at least 35 feet (as a 9th+ level monk). At that point, they could use their Step of the Wind which gives the following benefits (PHB, p. 78):




          You can spend 1 ki point to take the Disengage or Dash action as a bonus action on your turn, and your jump distance is doubled for the turn.




          The rules for jumping vertically state (PHB, p. 182):




          When you make a high jump, you leap into the air a number of feet equal to 3 + your Strength modifier if you move at least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump...You can extend your arms half your height above yourself during the jump. Thus, you can reach above you a distance equal to the height of the jump plus 11/2 times your height.




          You stated that this monk has a strength of "at least 10", which means their Step of the Wind ability will let them jump 6 feet up. Let's assume a worst case scenario, and presume that this monk is a halfling. A halfling PC has a height of 2' 7'' + 2d4 inches (PHB, p. 121). So at least they are 2' 9''. This would mean that they could then jump and reach the following height:



          $$ (2+(9/12))*1.5 + 6 = 10.125 feet$$



          So your hypothetical monk could still reach the enemy 10 feet above the rooftop using the usual rules for jumping vertically!






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Wow. If I am understanding you right, then you don't even need to argue that the climbing was "on foot:" if it was at least a 5'x5' platform or so you could just use some extra movement to run around in a circle on the rooftop to make the jump.
            $endgroup$
            – CR Drost
            2 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Not necessarily. In the "grid" system of movement, you need to move exclusively from one box to another (which costs exactly 5 feet in the simplest system). In such a system, moving in a circle within a 5x5 box would not count as "moving" for the purposes of spending movement. Feel free to pitch that to your DM, though.
            $endgroup$
            – Gandalfmeansme
            1 hour ago











          Your Answer








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          1 Answer
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          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

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          active

          oldest

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          active

          oldest

          votes









          5












          $begingroup$

          Rules as Written (RAW), Monks ignore gravity only when the rules say they do



          There's no question that a monk's relationship with gravity is peculiar. They have the ability to run on water, up walls, or even to literally "slow fall" (at 9th and 4th level respectively). So it's reasonable to ask to what extent this "fast and loose" relationship with a fundamental force of the universe applies.



          The simple answer is, gravity works differently for monks when the rules say it does. If you wish to make an argument that a vertical jump is considered horizontal for monks when they have just been running up a vertical surface, you need to find a rule that says this is the case. Unfortunately, there isn't one.



          Note that the rules for jumping specify that you need to have "move at least 10 feet on foot" (PHB, p. 182) to jump as high or far as possible: but it doesn't specify that this movement has to be horizontal. So at least a monk could gain this benefit from running up a wall, that other classes might not be able to use (since it's debatable whether or not climbing counts as moving "on foot").



          "Rule of cool", you might be able to talk a DM into it.



          There's no question that the thought of a monk running up a building and then launching themselves "sideways" upward is incredibly cool. Just for the visuals alone, you might be able to talk a DM into it. But since your question was about how to determine if "the rules" apply, the simple answer is that rules apply when the rules say they do.



          ...But either way, the monk could still reach the flying enemy!



          In your hypothetical, the monk will have only used up 20 feet of movement by the time they reach the top of the building (and are presumably standing on it), and have a speed of at least 35 feet (as a 9th+ level monk). At that point, they could use their Step of the Wind which gives the following benefits (PHB, p. 78):




          You can spend 1 ki point to take the Disengage or Dash action as a bonus action on your turn, and your jump distance is doubled for the turn.




          The rules for jumping vertically state (PHB, p. 182):




          When you make a high jump, you leap into the air a number of feet equal to 3 + your Strength modifier if you move at least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump...You can extend your arms half your height above yourself during the jump. Thus, you can reach above you a distance equal to the height of the jump plus 11/2 times your height.




          You stated that this monk has a strength of "at least 10", which means their Step of the Wind ability will let them jump 6 feet up. Let's assume a worst case scenario, and presume that this monk is a halfling. A halfling PC has a height of 2' 7'' + 2d4 inches (PHB, p. 121). So at least they are 2' 9''. This would mean that they could then jump and reach the following height:



          $$ (2+(9/12))*1.5 + 6 = 10.125 feet$$



          So your hypothetical monk could still reach the enemy 10 feet above the rooftop using the usual rules for jumping vertically!






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Wow. If I am understanding you right, then you don't even need to argue that the climbing was "on foot:" if it was at least a 5'x5' platform or so you could just use some extra movement to run around in a circle on the rooftop to make the jump.
            $endgroup$
            – CR Drost
            2 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Not necessarily. In the "grid" system of movement, you need to move exclusively from one box to another (which costs exactly 5 feet in the simplest system). In such a system, moving in a circle within a 5x5 box would not count as "moving" for the purposes of spending movement. Feel free to pitch that to your DM, though.
            $endgroup$
            – Gandalfmeansme
            1 hour ago















          5












          $begingroup$

          Rules as Written (RAW), Monks ignore gravity only when the rules say they do



          There's no question that a monk's relationship with gravity is peculiar. They have the ability to run on water, up walls, or even to literally "slow fall" (at 9th and 4th level respectively). So it's reasonable to ask to what extent this "fast and loose" relationship with a fundamental force of the universe applies.



          The simple answer is, gravity works differently for monks when the rules say it does. If you wish to make an argument that a vertical jump is considered horizontal for monks when they have just been running up a vertical surface, you need to find a rule that says this is the case. Unfortunately, there isn't one.



          Note that the rules for jumping specify that you need to have "move at least 10 feet on foot" (PHB, p. 182) to jump as high or far as possible: but it doesn't specify that this movement has to be horizontal. So at least a monk could gain this benefit from running up a wall, that other classes might not be able to use (since it's debatable whether or not climbing counts as moving "on foot").



          "Rule of cool", you might be able to talk a DM into it.



          There's no question that the thought of a monk running up a building and then launching themselves "sideways" upward is incredibly cool. Just for the visuals alone, you might be able to talk a DM into it. But since your question was about how to determine if "the rules" apply, the simple answer is that rules apply when the rules say they do.



          ...But either way, the monk could still reach the flying enemy!



          In your hypothetical, the monk will have only used up 20 feet of movement by the time they reach the top of the building (and are presumably standing on it), and have a speed of at least 35 feet (as a 9th+ level monk). At that point, they could use their Step of the Wind which gives the following benefits (PHB, p. 78):




          You can spend 1 ki point to take the Disengage or Dash action as a bonus action on your turn, and your jump distance is doubled for the turn.




          The rules for jumping vertically state (PHB, p. 182):




          When you make a high jump, you leap into the air a number of feet equal to 3 + your Strength modifier if you move at least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump...You can extend your arms half your height above yourself during the jump. Thus, you can reach above you a distance equal to the height of the jump plus 11/2 times your height.




          You stated that this monk has a strength of "at least 10", which means their Step of the Wind ability will let them jump 6 feet up. Let's assume a worst case scenario, and presume that this monk is a halfling. A halfling PC has a height of 2' 7'' + 2d4 inches (PHB, p. 121). So at least they are 2' 9''. This would mean that they could then jump and reach the following height:



          $$ (2+(9/12))*1.5 + 6 = 10.125 feet$$



          So your hypothetical monk could still reach the enemy 10 feet above the rooftop using the usual rules for jumping vertically!






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            Wow. If I am understanding you right, then you don't even need to argue that the climbing was "on foot:" if it was at least a 5'x5' platform or so you could just use some extra movement to run around in a circle on the rooftop to make the jump.
            $endgroup$
            – CR Drost
            2 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Not necessarily. In the "grid" system of movement, you need to move exclusively from one box to another (which costs exactly 5 feet in the simplest system). In such a system, moving in a circle within a 5x5 box would not count as "moving" for the purposes of spending movement. Feel free to pitch that to your DM, though.
            $endgroup$
            – Gandalfmeansme
            1 hour ago













          5












          5








          5





          $begingroup$

          Rules as Written (RAW), Monks ignore gravity only when the rules say they do



          There's no question that a monk's relationship with gravity is peculiar. They have the ability to run on water, up walls, or even to literally "slow fall" (at 9th and 4th level respectively). So it's reasonable to ask to what extent this "fast and loose" relationship with a fundamental force of the universe applies.



          The simple answer is, gravity works differently for monks when the rules say it does. If you wish to make an argument that a vertical jump is considered horizontal for monks when they have just been running up a vertical surface, you need to find a rule that says this is the case. Unfortunately, there isn't one.



          Note that the rules for jumping specify that you need to have "move at least 10 feet on foot" (PHB, p. 182) to jump as high or far as possible: but it doesn't specify that this movement has to be horizontal. So at least a monk could gain this benefit from running up a wall, that other classes might not be able to use (since it's debatable whether or not climbing counts as moving "on foot").



          "Rule of cool", you might be able to talk a DM into it.



          There's no question that the thought of a monk running up a building and then launching themselves "sideways" upward is incredibly cool. Just for the visuals alone, you might be able to talk a DM into it. But since your question was about how to determine if "the rules" apply, the simple answer is that rules apply when the rules say they do.



          ...But either way, the monk could still reach the flying enemy!



          In your hypothetical, the monk will have only used up 20 feet of movement by the time they reach the top of the building (and are presumably standing on it), and have a speed of at least 35 feet (as a 9th+ level monk). At that point, they could use their Step of the Wind which gives the following benefits (PHB, p. 78):




          You can spend 1 ki point to take the Disengage or Dash action as a bonus action on your turn, and your jump distance is doubled for the turn.




          The rules for jumping vertically state (PHB, p. 182):




          When you make a high jump, you leap into the air a number of feet equal to 3 + your Strength modifier if you move at least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump...You can extend your arms half your height above yourself during the jump. Thus, you can reach above you a distance equal to the height of the jump plus 11/2 times your height.




          You stated that this monk has a strength of "at least 10", which means their Step of the Wind ability will let them jump 6 feet up. Let's assume a worst case scenario, and presume that this monk is a halfling. A halfling PC has a height of 2' 7'' + 2d4 inches (PHB, p. 121). So at least they are 2' 9''. This would mean that they could then jump and reach the following height:



          $$ (2+(9/12))*1.5 + 6 = 10.125 feet$$



          So your hypothetical monk could still reach the enemy 10 feet above the rooftop using the usual rules for jumping vertically!






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          Rules as Written (RAW), Monks ignore gravity only when the rules say they do



          There's no question that a monk's relationship with gravity is peculiar. They have the ability to run on water, up walls, or even to literally "slow fall" (at 9th and 4th level respectively). So it's reasonable to ask to what extent this "fast and loose" relationship with a fundamental force of the universe applies.



          The simple answer is, gravity works differently for monks when the rules say it does. If you wish to make an argument that a vertical jump is considered horizontal for monks when they have just been running up a vertical surface, you need to find a rule that says this is the case. Unfortunately, there isn't one.



          Note that the rules for jumping specify that you need to have "move at least 10 feet on foot" (PHB, p. 182) to jump as high or far as possible: but it doesn't specify that this movement has to be horizontal. So at least a monk could gain this benefit from running up a wall, that other classes might not be able to use (since it's debatable whether or not climbing counts as moving "on foot").



          "Rule of cool", you might be able to talk a DM into it.



          There's no question that the thought of a monk running up a building and then launching themselves "sideways" upward is incredibly cool. Just for the visuals alone, you might be able to talk a DM into it. But since your question was about how to determine if "the rules" apply, the simple answer is that rules apply when the rules say they do.



          ...But either way, the monk could still reach the flying enemy!



          In your hypothetical, the monk will have only used up 20 feet of movement by the time they reach the top of the building (and are presumably standing on it), and have a speed of at least 35 feet (as a 9th+ level monk). At that point, they could use their Step of the Wind which gives the following benefits (PHB, p. 78):




          You can spend 1 ki point to take the Disengage or Dash action as a bonus action on your turn, and your jump distance is doubled for the turn.




          The rules for jumping vertically state (PHB, p. 182):




          When you make a high jump, you leap into the air a number of feet equal to 3 + your Strength modifier if you move at least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump...You can extend your arms half your height above yourself during the jump. Thus, you can reach above you a distance equal to the height of the jump plus 11/2 times your height.




          You stated that this monk has a strength of "at least 10", which means their Step of the Wind ability will let them jump 6 feet up. Let's assume a worst case scenario, and presume that this monk is a halfling. A halfling PC has a height of 2' 7'' + 2d4 inches (PHB, p. 121). So at least they are 2' 9''. This would mean that they could then jump and reach the following height:



          $$ (2+(9/12))*1.5 + 6 = 10.125 feet$$



          So your hypothetical monk could still reach the enemy 10 feet above the rooftop using the usual rules for jumping vertically!







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 3 hours ago

























          answered 4 hours ago









          GandalfmeansmeGandalfmeansme

          23.9k487141




          23.9k487141











          • $begingroup$
            Wow. If I am understanding you right, then you don't even need to argue that the climbing was "on foot:" if it was at least a 5'x5' platform or so you could just use some extra movement to run around in a circle on the rooftop to make the jump.
            $endgroup$
            – CR Drost
            2 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Not necessarily. In the "grid" system of movement, you need to move exclusively from one box to another (which costs exactly 5 feet in the simplest system). In such a system, moving in a circle within a 5x5 box would not count as "moving" for the purposes of spending movement. Feel free to pitch that to your DM, though.
            $endgroup$
            – Gandalfmeansme
            1 hour ago
















          • $begingroup$
            Wow. If I am understanding you right, then you don't even need to argue that the climbing was "on foot:" if it was at least a 5'x5' platform or so you could just use some extra movement to run around in a circle on the rooftop to make the jump.
            $endgroup$
            – CR Drost
            2 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Not necessarily. In the "grid" system of movement, you need to move exclusively from one box to another (which costs exactly 5 feet in the simplest system). In such a system, moving in a circle within a 5x5 box would not count as "moving" for the purposes of spending movement. Feel free to pitch that to your DM, though.
            $endgroup$
            – Gandalfmeansme
            1 hour ago















          $begingroup$
          Wow. If I am understanding you right, then you don't even need to argue that the climbing was "on foot:" if it was at least a 5'x5' platform or so you could just use some extra movement to run around in a circle on the rooftop to make the jump.
          $endgroup$
          – CR Drost
          2 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Wow. If I am understanding you right, then you don't even need to argue that the climbing was "on foot:" if it was at least a 5'x5' platform or so you could just use some extra movement to run around in a circle on the rooftop to make the jump.
          $endgroup$
          – CR Drost
          2 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          Not necessarily. In the "grid" system of movement, you need to move exclusively from one box to another (which costs exactly 5 feet in the simplest system). In such a system, moving in a circle within a 5x5 box would not count as "moving" for the purposes of spending movement. Feel free to pitch that to your DM, though.
          $endgroup$
          – Gandalfmeansme
          1 hour ago




          $begingroup$
          Not necessarily. In the "grid" system of movement, you need to move exclusively from one box to another (which costs exactly 5 feet in the simplest system). In such a system, moving in a circle within a 5x5 box would not count as "moving" for the purposes of spending movement. Feel free to pitch that to your DM, though.
          $endgroup$
          – Gandalfmeansme
          1 hour ago

















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